Kantor to the Rescue: What to do when teams get stuck
With special guests Nick Regan and Henrik Herrmann
Episode 17 of the Teams Transformed Podcast
Teams Transformed is the podcast for courageous coaches, curious leaders, and anyone passionate about unlocking the true power of teams. Hosted by TCS Founder and Senior Faculty Georgina Woudstra and Allard De Jong, listen to explore transformational insights on how to coach teams with presence, depth, and emergence, diving into not just the tools, but the art of team coaching itself.
About this Episode
In this episode of Teams Transformed, Georgina and Allard are joined by Nick and Henrik, two experienced practitioners in the field of learning and development and team coaching. Together, they explore how holding models and frameworks lightly can support powerful, in-the-moment interventions when working with teams.
Through a shared real-world example, Nick and Henrik reflect on their first co-coaching experience with a newly formed senior leadership team navigating ambiguity, overlapping roles, and unspoken tensions.
The conversation brings to life what happens when a team becomes stuck in circular dialogue, and how, rather than stepping in to direct, the coaches chose to surface the dynamic and invite leadership from within the system.
This moment of emergence led to a palpable shift in energy, alignment, and forward movement, highlighting how meaningful change often comes not from the coach doing more but from creating the conditions for the team to step into its own leadership and collective responsibility.
About our guests
Nick is the co-founder of two businesses in the field of learning and development. Through ici2learn, he provides customised 1:1 coaching, team coaching, facilitation, and training services, supporting leaders and teams to connect, collaborate effectively, and achieve lasting success. Through Skillful Collaboration he offers accessible, off-the-shelf learning solutions, including team assessments, debriefs, and masterclasses, with a mission to help teams everywhere grow the human skills of collaboration.
Henrik brings more than 15 years of corporate leadership experience to his work as an executive and team coach. Formerly an HR Director for multinational organisations, he has deep insight into what it takes to build high-performing teams in complex environments. A graduate of the Team Coaching Studio Diploma, a certified ICF PCC coach, and founder of True Work, Henrik partners with CEOs and senior teams to help them navigate complexity, engage in real conversations, and achieve meaningful transformation. Together with his international network of coaches, he is committed to fostering an authentic corporate world grounded in trust, clarity, and performance.
Key Themes Explored
Emergence Through Discomfort
Nick and Henrik describe a moment where a team conversation became stuck in circular “moves,” with individuals advocating for their own perspectives but not truly engaging with one another. Rather than stepping in to direct the conversation, the coaches stayed with the discomfort, allowing the tension to build until it created the conditions for meaningful intervention.
Surfacing the System
By naming what they were observing and inviting the team leader into the process, the coaches helped make the invisible dynamic visible. This simple act shifted the atmosphere in the room, releasing tension and enabling the team to move forward with greater clarity and alignment.
Leadership from Within the System
A pivotal moment occurred when the team leader was invited to step forward and guide the group. Her intervention transformed the conversation from fragmented advocacy into coordinated action, illustrating the power of activating leadership from within rather than imposing direction from outside.
Holding Frameworks Lightly
The Kantor four-player model informed the coaches’ understanding of the dynamics at play, but it remained in the background. Rather than teaching the model explicitly, they used it to guide their awareness and intervention, demonstrating how frameworks can support practice without constraining it.
Co-Coaching as a Resource
Nick and Henrik reflect on the value of working together, particularly in moments of uncertainty. Their ability to check in with one another, share observations, and align in real time strengthened their presence and effectiveness, and reduced the likelihood of reactive intervention.
Working with New Teams
The episode highlights the challenges inherent in newly formed teams such as unclear roles, overlapping responsibilities, and unspoken expectations. By creating space for these dynamics to surface, the coaches supported the team in accelerating its development and building stronger foundations.
Micro-Interventions with Individuals
Henrik shares how brief, in-the-moment one-on-one conversations during breaks helped individuals shift how they showed up in the team. These small interventions had a ripple effect, influencing the broader system and enhancing overall team dynamics.
From Whole Group to Subgroups
Following the breakthrough moment, the team was able to split into subgroups to work on interdependent tasks. This shift enabled more effective collaboration and demonstrated a more flexible and mature way of working together.
Key takeaways
🌱 Stay with the Discomfort: Breakthroughs often emerge when coaches resist the urge to intervene too quickly and instead allow tension to surface.
🤝 Name What You See: Making group dynamics visible can unlock movement and shared understanding.
🎯 Invite Leadership, Don’t Replace It: Sustainable change happens when leaders step forward from within the system.
🧠 Use Frameworks Lightly: Models are most powerful when they inform awareness rather than dominate the process.
👥 Co-Coaching Strengthens Presence: Working with a partner can enhance reflection, alignment, and confidence in complex moments.
🔄 Small Shifts, Big Impact: Brief, individual interventions can significantly influence the wider team system.
🧩 Embrace the Messiness of New Teams: Early-stage confusion is a natural and necessary part of team development.
🚀 Enable Collective Action: Moving between whole-group and subgroup work can accelerate collaboration and results.
Why listen?
This episode offers a grounded, real-world exploration of what emergence looks like in practice. Nick and Henrik’s story illustrates how easily teams can become stuck, and how powerful it can be to resist the instinct to fix, instead trusting the process and the people in the room.
Listeners will gain insight into how to work with group dynamics in real time, how to support leaders to step into their role, and how to use frameworks as quiet guides rather than rigid tools.
Whether you are an experienced team coach or just beginning your journey, this conversation provides practical wisdom on navigating uncertainty, partnering effectively, and creating the conditions for teams to unlock their own potential.
About your hosts
Georgina Woudstra is the Founder and Senior Faculty of Team Coaching Studio, an ICF Master Certified Coach (MCC) with over 20 years of experience. Georgina is recognised globally as one of the leading lights in team coaching and was among the first coaches to receive ICF's Advanced Certificate in Team Coaching.
Allard De Jong is a seasoned leadership development expert with two decades of experience solving organisational 'people problems' and accelerating leadership development. He brings a unique perspective on transformative inquiry and divergent thinking to team coaching practice.
Never miss an episode!
Follow the Podcast: Available on all spotify, audible, apple podcasts and all major podcasting platforms
Watch on YouTube: For full video recordings of episodes and additional content
Stay Updated: Sign up to the Team Coaching Studio newsletter: a monthly roundup including all our recently launched podcasts
Teams Transformed is brought to you by Team Coaching Studio - dedicated to advancing the field of team coaching through world-class education, certification, practice, connection and community.